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One might ask — Is there such a thing as a comfortable ride in coach? Definitely a question worth debating (so fire away in the comments, but not what I am shooting for) — what I am shooting for in this quick study is to answer this complex question without a big discussion of seat pitch and leg room, but rather taking a close look at the actual flight schedules and airplanes of an airline to see if there were some interesting nuggets to help us on the quest to answer this question (and yes I understand that Midwest is mostly all business and has warm cookies, so don’t send me notes)… |
For those of us who are constantly boarding 50 or 70 seat regional jets, one metric that I thought would be interesting to see which airlines (with at least 100 flights a day) have the most seats on average per flight. The argument for this test would be pretty simple — more seats, more room, less passengers, more comfy (at least its one way to look at it )
I did a couple of quick database queries on our U.S. domestic flight schedules for a typical Monday in early November for airlines with an average of 100 or more seats per flight are shown below:
- Hawaiian Airlines average 154 seats per flight
- Spirit Airlines average 149 seats per flight
- Southwest Airlines average 136 seats per flight
- JetBlue average 136 seats per flight
- Aloha Airlines average 126 seats per flight
- AirTran average 124 seats per flight
- Frontier Airlines average 120 seats per flight
After looking at these results (mostly “lower” cost airlines), I began to wonder if I was barking up the wrong tree using average seats per flight to help decide comfort I began to wonder if this information was skewed because it didnt take into account the much bigger and complicated legacy airlines who have premium coach in some cases and have to use small planes to get folks from their regional airports to the bigger connecting airports?
What was clear from this information is that the legacy airlines are flying a tremendous number of smaller jets, so that would be one strike against them.
Ok! So with theses questions still lingering, it was time to take a look at the type of planes for each airline to see if this could enlighten us a bit more.
Let’s start with the roomy ones those with a larger number of seats (175 or more); those with more seats than the popular 737 (and similar sized Airbus 318-321) and the 50/70/100 seat regional jets [Embraier, Bombardier]):
- Boeing 777
- United 25 daily flights, American 6, Delta 4
- AirBus A300-330
- American 12 daily flights, Northwest 4
- Boeing 767
- Delta 86 daily flights, American 70, United 52, Hawaiian 33, Continental 13, US Airways 4
- Boeing 757
- Delta 463 daily flights, United 301, American 265, Northwest 201, Continental 111, US Airways 107, ATA 9
Or put another way:
- Delta 553 daily larger seat count flights
- United 378 daily larger seat count flights
- American 363 daily larger seat count flights
- Northwest 205 daily larger seat count flights
- Continental 124 daily larger seat count flights
- US Airways 111 daily larger seat count flights
And last but not least the oh-so-comfy 50-100 seat regional jets from Embraer and Bombardier (a few props have 50+ seats):
- Delta 2,066 daily regional jet and bigger prop flights
- American 1,586 daily regional jet and bigger prop flights
- US Airways 1,533 daily regional jet flights
- United 1,415 daily regional jet flights
- Continental 1,147 daily regional jet flights
- Alaska 468 daily regional jet and bigger prop flights
- Northwest 807 daily regional jet flights
- Express Jet 224 daily regional jet flights
- JetBlue 142 daily regional jet flights
The major legacy airlines have a large number of 125-150 seat aircraft, but are overshadowed by the number of smaller commuter craft.
Obviously this data doesn’t include how new and fresh a plane is or any other comfy criteria, but I think it is relatively clear — but completely counter intuitive — that going with a lower cost airline is more likely to be comfier than any random flight on a legacy airline.
I am just off a trip where I was on a legacy airline Super-80 and a low cost airline 737 (guessing which airlines is left as an exercise for the reader) and apples to apples I would go with the newer 737 vs. the older Super-80, but that is just me — I am a sucker for no seat assignment (well almost no seat assignment) — ask me tomorrow and I might change my mind
Speaking of comfort in coach, what are your opinions on United Airlines charging for the Economy Plus seating? As a frequent flier with United, I used to be able to get those seats without paying, but now I am finding it more and more difficult. Are other airlines taking a look at this model and seeing it as successful?
Comment by Nick — October 16, 2007 @ 10:38 am
Is it just me or are the seats in JetBlue narrower than on American?
I’ve noticed that and people think that it’s just in my head.
Comment by Johnie — October 16, 2007 @ 11:28 am
I’m a Dallas flyer too, so I guess your trip was on an American Super80 and a Southwest 737. I fly between DFW and BWI almost weekly and almost always on American. Every segment I fly to/from BWI is on a 757. About a month ago though, American quit flying the ex-TWA 757s that I had grown to really like. As a platinum flyer, I’m always in the first row of coach, and on the old TWA 757s the left-side bulkhead had tons of extra legroom because the flight attendents pull down seat is across from that row on the bulkhead - and we know how little they sit down. Now with the American 757s that I don’t find as nice (old CRT monitors in the isles inside of the flip down LCD monitors every other row or so) that extra extra legroom at the bulkhead goes away because the attendents seats are in the galley. Sorry for the rant. I do occasionally fly American into DCA which is almost always a Super80, and while they are smaller, I find the isle seat on the two-seat row side isn’t that bad. Also, on occasion I fly Southwest to BWI. I must agree that their seats are comfy, but I’m not a true beliver in open seating (though it should go a lot better since they quit letting families board first).
Comment by Brandon — October 16, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
I haven’t noticed Jet Blue seats being narrower but they do give you more pitch (leg room) than most other airlines.
In fact if you check the figures on seatguru.com, Jet Blue seats are a bit wider (17.8″ as opposed to 17.2″ for most others) and definitely have more pitch on their airbuses (NOT the EMB’s)(34″-36″) as compared to most other’s at (31″-33″)
Comment by Cliff — October 18, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
I’m not sure I can see the logic: more seats, more room, less passengers = more comfy. With load factors historically high, I think the more likely result is more seats,more passengers = less room, less comfy. And the same aircraft can be configured to have more seats by shrinking seat pitch (remember ehat happened to American’s comfort level when they ditched their “more room” approach) It’s hard to argue that in that circumstance more seats = more comfy. Even if the seat next to you is empty, seat pitch matters enormously. And is there logic in saying more seats = fewer passengers? Not if the airlines are working their yield management formulas correctly. You’re right that it’s a counterintuitive approach, but I’m thinking the intuitive approach might be more realistic. Since I’m nitpicking, a 757 is not a widebody…
Comment by hp — October 18, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
Comment by Rick Seaney — October 18, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
Too me leg room matters most, rules out airtran, American and southwest are good. American allows fairly flexible picking of seats.
Comment by Peter — October 18, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
I have a sure fire way of knowing which airlines has the more leg room and wider seats. For the last 3 years I’ve been traveling from Phoenix to NYC with a car seat. Since the size of the car seat doesnt change, I must conclude that the seats on the airplane do. I have flown AA, Jet Blue and Southwest and the winner is Jet blue. My car seat easily fits between the arm rests and my daughter can barely kick the seat in front of her, even when reclined. Both AA and Southwest have narrow seats but AA has the worst leg room. The last time I flew AA, lower edge of the car seat was inches from the seat back (when reclined). Also, I know that depending on where you sit, these variables change but as best as I can remember, this is true.
Also, Brandon, Im not a fan of open seating either but I wont fly Southwest anymore since they did away with families board first. Have you ever tried to carry a car seat down the isle of a fully loaded plane while looking for an open row? Not Fun!
Comment by Joe — October 18, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Just a comment about “comfy” seats in coach. I’m a Continental flyer due to my usual destination. The other airline flying to my usual destination is Southwest. I hated using Southwest because of the “cattle call.” However, the price of tickets were so low, I recently travelled via Southwest. YES, THE COACH SEATS ARE ROOMIER!!! Wider seats and a little more leg room. Also, a comment about their flight attendants - they were so much fun that our 6 plus hours of travel which included a change of planes went faster than ever. Other attendants should lighten up a little.
Comment by Sandy — October 18, 2007 @ 7:26 pm
I can’t possibly see how you’re assuming more comfort based on more seats per aircraft? Shouldn’t seat pitch be the number one determiner of comfort, especially in coach? I’d rather be in a full plane with a 34″ seat pitch than one with every middle seat empty and a 31″ seat pitch.
As far as RJs go, there is no such thing as comfort. They all seem to have about 30-31″ seat pitch and there is no overhead space so things frequently have to go on the floor under the seat in front of you if you don’t gate check them. This eats up your already non-existant leg room. The only RJs that I’ll fly on if I have any choice at all is the EMB-170 which feels a lot more like a 318 than an RJ.
Comment by Hans — October 18, 2007 @ 8:01 pm
We have given up flying and now just take cruises which sometimes require us to take a plane. If this is the case we make sure we have to go for at least 20/30 days at a time. At 6′3″ tall, but thin, I am not built to be in a most planes. Also I don’t mind paying extra for extra seat room if available. For me it is a necessity.
Comment by Brett — October 18, 2007 @ 8:07 pm
I don’t pay much attention to plane models, maybe I should. But at 5′7″, most coach seats are fine for me on flights of five hours or less. I just want an aisle seat because I need to hop up to the lav/stretch my legs rather often. I know this is a discussion about leg room, but one thing I’ve noticed about Southwest, which I’ve been flying from SFO-Midway lately: they don’t clog up the aisle with drink carts! The flight attendants bring your drinks on a tray and you can always get by them. On some flights, with long aisles, you can wait a loooong time if you don’t time your visits properly!
Don’t know if this is pertinent to the “comfort in coach seats” discussion, but it’s important to my comfort!
I DO find the Southwest seats comfortable. Don’t like the “cattle call”, though. Someone always starts a “spur line” for B and you have to negotiate with your fellow passengers.
Comment by Missy — October 18, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
Wow. I didn’t realize UA operated 25 daily domestic flights on a 777. Anyone know what they are?
Nor did I realize AA has 6 daily 777 in the states. What about those? I know Delta has 777 running routes from ATL-LAX-ATL (on the way to Tel Aviv), and JFK-ATL-JFK (on the way to Mumbai). Quite interesting!
Comment by Andrew — October 18, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
Comment by Rick Seaney — October 19, 2007 @ 9:59 am
Pitch is king - American went from one end of the pack to the other by giving up More Room. Leather seats are much more comfortable as well. If you are traveling with a purse or briefcase, then the position of the bar under the seat matters too. With a US Airways 737-300, it seems to be right under the middle of the seat - leaving little room for stowing and your feet.
And why the anger with Southwest? Who else has a family first policy anymore? And since families board during or after Group A - 2/3ds of the plane is open.
Comment by Tish Dime — October 19, 2007 @ 10:19 am
My experience has been that more seats = more people since I have not been on a plane with empty seats in over a year.
My one absolute rule is if the flight is longer than 3 hours the plane must have two aisles.
Comment by Charles Cross — October 19, 2007 @ 11:18 am
I flew Southwest Airlines for the first time this week, a 1 hr. flight from FLL-JAX. (1) Leather seats make a huge difference–not only are they way more comfortable to sit on, I feel they are cleaner than fabric seats. Lots of travelers are unbelievable slobs–just take a look at all the debris strewn around on the seats & floor next time you exit an aircraft. (2) As far as seat pitch and legroom, it’s OK unless you sit in the row just forward of the exit row–it doesn’t recline, and if the guy in front fully reclines his seat, you have, no joke, only about 14″ of room. (3) Rick, I agree: an empty middle seat is a huge factor in comfort; if I had bucks, I swear I’d buy the middle seat too!(oh, wait, I could just fly first class…) BTW, I also experienced the B-group cheaters, those ingrates who formed a second split line even though they knew darn well where the real line was.
Comment by Barb — October 19, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
Re Southwest, Are all seats the same in regard to leg room? If not, which seats are better? seatguru.com doesn’t carry info on Southwest planes. Thanks.
Comment by Connie — October 20, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
I am a larger older person and yes - I have taken to Southwest lately not only for the cleaning of the aisles but for the extra room - would love not know more about the buying up to first class rules - Thanks
Comment by brendapate — October 22, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
I’m a little confused about your stats on AS. AS doesn’t fly anything except 737s and a handful of MD-80s - are those 468 daily “regional jet and bigger prop” flights actually QX flights? If so, I would recommend calling them what they are in your list. And I would recommend listing AS and QX separately - even though they’re owned by the same parent company, the two airlines have different goals and different management; QX is not just a connection carrier for AS.
And to comment #16 - it’s lucky you don’t live in AK like I do, because there’s not a single plane flying domestically out of ANC that has two aisles (except for CX 012 NRT-ANC-JFK, which is afaik unbookable domestically) and all flights are over 3 hours.
Comment by Tonei — October 26, 2007 @ 11:13 pm
Comment by Rick Seaney — October 26, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
I have yet to find a comfortable coach seat.I and the guy only my girlfriend wants to sit next to on an airline.I am 6′8″(not thin) and girlfriend is 5′3″(very thin and a wheelchair user).We look for seats with a armrest that moves so the space she does not need helps me.Pitch with my Mens(US) size 22 feet is another one of the thing that we look at for me not my girlfriend(size 4).We are planning on taking a cruise but will likely have to fly to the departure city.So finding a good seat for the flight would be nice.
Comment by Jerry — March 16, 2008 @ 8:58 pm