Comments on: Pilots vs. US Airways: How Much Fuel Should Go on the Planes? http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/ Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:05:20 GMT http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.2.4 By: Wendy http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-58422 Wendy Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:41:39 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-58422 We were diverted on USAirways from MIA to TPA on Monday due to fuel... The crew told everyone that MIA and FLL were closed due to weather, but after a few passengers made phone calls to MIA and FLL - including calls to USAirways employees waiting on them at the MIA airport, standing in flight ops no less - we found out that this was a blatant lie. What is also interesting is that we landed in TPA the SAME time that we were scheduled to have landed in MIA, so does this mean they now knowingly leaving the airport without enough fuel to even get to the destination period? Safety IS very important, but this really smacked of being a total planned demonstration versus a real safety issue... unless they are risking our lives to begin with, right? We were diverted on USAirways from MIA to TPA on Monday due to fuel… The crew told everyone that MIA and FLL were closed due to weather, but after a few passengers made phone calls to MIA and FLL - including calls to USAirways employees waiting on them at the MIA airport, standing in flight ops no less - we found out that this was a blatant lie. What is also interesting is that we landed in TPA the SAME time that we were scheduled to have landed in MIA, so does this mean they now knowingly leaving the airport without enough fuel to even get to the destination period? Safety IS very important, but this really smacked of being a total planned demonstration versus a real safety issue… unless they are risking our lives to begin with, right?

]]> By: JR http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-21874 JR Sat, 02 Aug 2008 06:43:36 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-21874 A few disgruntled, yet highly experienced employees have decided to carry more additional fuel more often than their coworkers in the same circumstances. That said, nothing UNSAFE has been done by these pilots - and the travelling public needs to be made aware that all Commercial and Airline pilots do care about safety as priority one. In the end ticket prices, delays, fees for drinks and lost bags don't matter. What really matters is your safety. An Airline Captain making a SAFER decision should never be chastised for doing so - its in the flying public's best interest that these highly experienced flyers remain comfortable in making the safest decision every single time. A few disgruntled, yet highly experienced employees have decided to carry more additional fuel more often than their coworkers in the same circumstances. That said, nothing UNSAFE has been done by these pilots - and the travelling public needs to be made aware that all Commercial and Airline pilots do care about safety as priority one.

In the end ticket prices, delays, fees for drinks and lost bags don’t matter. What really matters is your safety. An Airline Captain making a SAFER decision should never be chastised for doing so - its in the flying public’s best interest that these highly experienced flyers remain comfortable in making the safest decision every single time.

]]> By: love2travel http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20926 love2travel Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:55:16 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20926 Last Sunday, my flight from DTW to Boston on NWA was placed on a ground hold in DTW due to weather on the east coast. Our plane taxied out to a hold area and then engines were shut down and we were held in au un-airconditioned stiffling hot plane for about an hour before we returned to an open gate, de-planed and waited a short time to reboard. My impression at the time was that they shut down the engines/AC to conserve on fuel. Our total delay was 3+ hours, not the end of the world, but my feeling at the time was they had to shut down the engines for fear of falling below their minimum fuel threshold. I only think we returned to the gate because there was an elderly first-class passenger that a woman across the aisle was fanning with a magazine and that the cabin crew feared an "incident" that would end up in the headlines. I admit lots of speculation on my part, but it felt like fuel conservation was a major concern as I watched the situation play out. Last Sunday, my flight from DTW to Boston on NWA was placed on a ground hold in DTW due to weather on the east coast. Our plane taxied out to a hold area and then engines were shut down and we were held in au un-airconditioned stiffling hot plane for about an hour before we returned to an open gate, de-planed and waited a short time to reboard. My impression at the time was that they shut down the engines/AC to conserve on fuel. Our total delay was 3+ hours, not the end of the world, but my feeling at the time was they had to shut down the engines for fear of falling below their minimum fuel threshold. I only think we returned to the gate because there was an elderly first-class passenger that a woman across the aisle was fanning with a magazine and that the cabin crew feared an “incident” that would end up in the headlines. I admit lots of speculation on my part, but it felt like fuel conservation was a major concern as I watched the situation play out.

]]> By: Jim http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20783 Jim Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:48:26 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20783 I haven't been on US since leaving CLT almost ten years ago and I have no intention of doing so now. It is an inept airline and these eight idiots are one of the reasons. Why is it that the integration of HP is STILL not complete? The ballistic tactics of the US unions, that's why! My friend is on a trip in F and still had to pay a baggage fee because they said her bag was 2 inches oversize. Any other airline wouldn't have worried about so small a difference (and measuring bags can be subjective unless you pack in a cardboard box). I'm sure other airlines would love to have the revenue from her trip across the Atlantic. I haven’t been on US since leaving CLT almost ten years ago and I have no intention of doing so now. It is an inept airline and these eight idiots are one of the reasons. Why is it that the integration of HP is STILL not complete? The ballistic tactics of the US unions, that’s why! My friend is on a trip in F and still had to pay a baggage fee because they said her bag was 2 inches oversize. Any other airline wouldn’t have worried about so small a difference (and measuring bags can be subjective unless you pack in a cardboard box). I’m sure other airlines would love to have the revenue from her trip across the Atlantic.

]]> By: mary http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20782 mary Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:46:09 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20782 Fuel consumption is impacted by distance, wind direction and velocity, other weather issues as well as landing locations and possible congestion. The pilots have to check weather services and maps, etc before flying so they should have the last say...if any airline wants to sell me a ticket. Fuel consumption is impacted by distance, wind direction and velocity, other weather issues as well as landing locations and possible congestion. The pilots have to check weather services and maps, etc before flying so they should have the last say…if any airline wants to sell me a ticket.

]]> By: CaveatEmpty http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20700 CaveatEmpty Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:14:24 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20700 <i>"The FAA 45 minute rule is a paper rule"</i> ~ Yup. & it's been that way as long as I can remember -- 38 years licensed. The rest of the rule says, essentially, that there be sufficient fuel for ALL expected operations to destination, PLUS the reserve to an alternate destination. And that's how the folks back in the flight-ops office do things. Having seen the interviews with the 'lead Sr. captain', it was revealed that they are ordering additional fuel for as much as 110 minutes reserve. Seemingly only the 8 captains in question. And only US Air. What's wrong with that picture? /. “The FAA 45 minute rule is a paper rule” ~ Yup. & it’s been that way as long as I can remember — 38 years licensed.
The rest of the rule says, essentially, that there be sufficient fuel for ALL expected operations to destination, PLUS the reserve to an alternate destination. And that’s how the folks back in the flight-ops office do things.

Having seen the interviews with the ‘lead Sr. captain’, it was revealed that they are ordering additional fuel for as much as 110 minutes reserve. Seemingly only the 8 captains in question. And only US Air.

What’s wrong with that picture?
/.

]]> By: Petes2cents http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20059 Petes2cents Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:42:22 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20059 I would like to know who is the idiot that would even think of such a ridiculous plan. We have enough worries on being blown out of the sky or being flown into a high rise, now we have to worry about not having enough fuel ? So now my life hangs in the hands of a CEO, that is sitting at home, sipping on Cognac, while my pilot is stressed and wondering if he has enough fuel to land his airplane, that is carrying three hundred passengers. petes2cents.com I would like to know who is the idiot that would even think of such a ridiculous plan. We have enough worries on being blown out of the sky or being flown into a high rise, now we have to worry about not having enough fuel ?

So now my life hangs in the hands of a CEO, that is sitting at home, sipping on Cognac, while my pilot is stressed and wondering if he has enough fuel to land his airplane, that is carrying three hundred passengers.

petes2cents.com

]]> By: Steve Filson http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20030 Steve Filson Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:27:06 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20030 Sorry but I have to disagree with both of you. First of all, we don't know what the circumstances were. What was the weather, was the destination an air traffic congested airport, what was the departure airports traffic congestion for departure delays, etc. The FAA 45 minute rule is a paper rule. These are the big leagues for flying. No Captain in his/her right mind is going to consider that 45 minutes fully available ie keep flying until the tanks are empty. Most Captains will plan to be on the ground with no less than 30 minutes flying time left which means that the 45 minutes offers up about 15 minutes buffer in real conditions. These Captains have years of experience and have been caught short of fuel enough times in their careers to make them cautious. That's why the public depends on them. Management has little understanding to the realities of real operations. The pilots are licensed, the managers are not. And the FAA gives a Captain full authority to add fuel should they deem it necessary. Sorry but I have to disagree with both of you. First of all, we don’t know what the circumstances were. What was the weather, was the destination an air traffic congested airport, what was the departure airports traffic congestion for departure delays, etc. The FAA 45 minute rule is a paper rule. These are the big leagues for flying. No Captain in his/her right mind is going to consider that 45 minutes fully available ie keep flying until the tanks are empty. Most Captains will plan to be on the ground with no less than 30 minutes flying time left which means that the 45 minutes offers up about 15 minutes buffer in real conditions.
These Captains have years of experience and have been caught short of fuel enough times in their careers to make them cautious. That’s why the public depends on them. Management has little understanding to the realities of real operations. The pilots are licensed, the managers are not. And the FAA gives a Captain full authority to add fuel should they deem it necessary.

]]> By: Gregg Marshall http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20019 Gregg Marshall Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:08:31 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20019 Interesting timing, I just got this from my flight instructor (back in college when I wasn't married and could afford to fly).. <blockquote>This morning, I read an article about airline pilots whining about management insisting that they fly with less of a fuel load so that they can save the company some money. I have to side with management on this issue. I have had to fly with way too many fuel wasting PICs who choose to overload an aircraft with fuel. Most recently, the owner of the junker Cessna 421 I had to use for air ambulance service wanted me to tanker fuel outbound so that he could save a little cash compared to buying fuel for the return trip. In the interest of takeoff safety, lighter fuel load equals improved engine out performance. In addition, significantly less fuel is used during climb and cruise. I proved this while flying King Airs. I carried the legal fuel load, quite adequate for the flight. Another pilot in an identical airplane filled his tanks. We both arrived with the same amount of reserve fuel remaining!. He used his excess fuel to carry his excess fuel! What a waste! Interesting timing, I just got this from my flight instructor (back in college when I wasn’t married and could afford to fly)..

This morning, I read an article about airline pilots whining about management insisting that they fly with less of a fuel load so that they can save the company some money. I have to side with management on this issue. I have had to fly with way too many fuel wasting PICs who choose to overload an aircraft with fuel. Most recently, the owner of the junker Cessna 421 I had to use for air ambulance service wanted me to tanker fuel outbound so that he could save a little cash compared to buying fuel for the return trip.

In the interest of takeoff safety, lighter fuel load equals improved engine out performance. In addition, significantly less fuel is used during climb and cruise. I proved this while flying King Airs. I carried the legal fuel load, quite adequate for the flight. Another pilot in an identical airplane filled his tanks. We both arrived with the same amount of reserve fuel remaining!. He used his excess fuel to carry his excess fuel! What a waste!

]]> By: Papa Rinaldi http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20016 Papa Rinaldi Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:27:51 +0000 http://rickseaney.com/2008/07/17/pilots-vs-us-airways-how-much-fuel-should-go-on-the-planes/#comment-20016 If the FAA didnt feel 45 minutes of extra fuel was safe, then why wouldnt they require more? Isnt the FAA regulated 45 minutes, plus the additional 10-15 minutes of fuel enough? If the FAA didnt feel 45 minutes of extra fuel was safe, then why wouldnt they require more? Isnt the FAA regulated 45 minutes, plus the additional 10-15 minutes of fuel enough?

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